Wednesday, January 19, 2011

On Obedience (and Consequences)

image from here

Two things I hate teaching to my children:
How to work
Consequences for actions

The work thing?  The older my big kids get, the more I see this concept taking root.  Sometimes they won't do chores or do something when I ask them to, but usually, they do.

Consequences, on the other hand, I just can't seem to get through a few of their heads.

They need to learn Newton's Law of Motion when it comes to school work: "For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction."

Most bright children are extremely eager to please their teachers, bending over backwards to pull exceptional grades. My bright children all rank in a small group of "my half-baked efforts are consistently above most people's best, so why should I work harder than that?" 

How do I instill in them that "Best" is better than "First"?

How do I show them that quality trumps quantity every time?

How do I help them realize their true potentials?

How do I get their best out of them, when their half-hearted attempts at schoolwork consistently bring home B or B+ work?  When I know there's no excuse for less than an A?

I hope you can understand this:  I have seven children, five of whom have completed some level of public schooling.  I expect out of each of them their individual best, not a preset bar over which they are required to jump.  I expect them to obey and follow through, that's all.  If their best effort is a C-, then fantastic (and that has happened around here).  We'll celebrate.  But if they are only turning in half of their assignments and still acing every test and pulling a C-, then we have to talk.

And that's where consequences come in.

And that's where I'm struggling.

I have instituted a policy with two of my children (who shall remain nameless to protect the guilty). That policy is this:  If their work is not their best work (in the case of one) or if they are missing assignments at the end of the week (in the case of the other), then they are grounded.  One child has had no interaction with friends for almost two weeks, while another missed activities over the long holiday weekend.

One child desperately tried to convince me that they had no idea what the assignments were, and that it couldn't possibly be their fault.  And I should show mercy rather than justice in this instance.  Just this once.

For the record, this policy has been in place since the beginning of January, and this was the first time it had been tested.  I was torn.  The gradebook showed four grades--two 0s and two 100s-averaging out (using the teacher's points) as a 70.2%.

When will kids learn that positive rewards are all a parent wants?  When will they learn that punishment and following through with it are the hardest things we parents are asked to do?  When will they learn that we WANT them to have fun, hang with their friends, and have a life?  When will they learn that if you obey the rules, you reap the rewards?

I stuck to my guns.  Said Child was angry with me for a few hours.  Skipped dinner (that showed me, didn't it?).  Ignored me.  If Child hadn't been mad, then it was the incorrect punishment, right?

I hate it when I have to punish them.

I hope Child has learned their lesson for this week.

Other Child is still struggling, and tries to convince me every day that "the teacher didn't . . . "  "it's not my fault. . . ."  And I've had to stiffen the consequences.  Now, extra homework (penmanship) after school, plus no friends.  Plus, the teacher is isolating Child (at my request, hoping eliminating distraction may help?).

HELP!  What would you do? Am I being too strict?

blog
Linking up my O for obedience with Jenny MatlockJenny Matlock

40 comments:

  1. No. You're not being too strict. You're doing them a huge favor. The world will never overlook and give great opportunities to a slacker. I've seen so many bright, talented kids spoiled to death and ruined because the parents didn't want to be the bad guys. Stick to your guns, Jen. They WILL give in eventually. I have my younger son that thanks me all the time for teaching him those kinds of lessons, but hoo boy - at the time it was awful. We would fight like cats and dogs.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Absolutely not, you are NOT being to strict. You are being strong, and consistent. They will certainly thank you later. BUT, I do really, REALLY HATE the discipline follow through part we have to do. Sometimes it is SO hard to actually have to give that vinegar, give that spank, not allow them something.

    ReplyDelete
  3. Oh yes this is a toughie I think! We want our kids to be the best they can be -- whatever that is. Sometimes they don't come out of the womb very motivated to become their best. This is a very though provoking post. Happy O. Joni

    ReplyDelete
  4. Oh you are my hero. I have no teenagers and so my kids really aren't good at pulling the wool over my eyes, but I totally get the meanie mommy guilt. Even if it is for their good! I am impressed...yet again!

    ReplyDelete
  5. Please be strict! My husband and I were both the same way, school was always easy, and college killed us because we never learned to work. If you can get them to take honors or AP classes do it! bribe them! I really wish my parents had done that with me, they also weren't big on follow through and it hurt all of us. If everything has always been easy they might also be terrified of failing so they never try. That is something else very common with bright kids.
    And, um, prayer. Since each kid is different :)

    ReplyDelete
  6. When you make a rule and don't follow through with it you lose your 'street cred' and that sucks! I think the fact that you do set rules and consequences and follow through shows that you are a good mama. And they'll love you one day for it- a day a very long time from now.

    ReplyDelete
  7. I'm working on the consequences thing with my almost 6 year old right now. Her 4 year old brother has got it down. All you have to do is remind him of the consequences and start counting, and he's right there doing whatever it is he's supposed to. My 6 year old does not get that. I'm told constantly by my kids that I'm "rude" or "mean" or "not fair" but I know that I'm helping my kids to turn into the best human beings they can possibly be. You don't want your kids to think that they're entitled to whatever they want as adults because we couldn't make ourselves follow through. You're doing a great job. Just keep holding out. They'll figure it out soon enough.

    ReplyDelete
  8. I'm having the hardest time with my 15 year old and respecting certain rules. He is obedient for the most part, but sometimes he tests me.
    Great post!

    ReplyDelete
  9. We had this happen with two of our kids and we finally had to literally take it on a day by day basis.
    We tried the grounding first. We got the attitude, so we had to change our gameplan. We found it was really in shaping their habits where the change came in.
    On a daily basis we looked at all the homework they brought home - we had the teacher e-mail us about assignments or what was not turned in so we could compare. If things were done they got friends or tv, etc...that day. If not they were grounded.
    After a few short days of this routine (which gets old fast) it got dramatically better and after 2weeks new habits were formed and we no longer had to have the teacher interaction.
    If they slipped we actually showed up at school in their classroom - talk about major embarrassment - they would do anything to NOT have that happen! (I kind of have sweet memories about that -hee hee).
    We still checked with the teacher weekly to see about grades and missed assignments but usually the child stayed on track after all that.
    Man kids can be stubborn!!
    I am a super strict parent so NO I do not think you are being unreasonable - Kids need strong discipline and guidance!!

    Hope this novel helps somewhat. You do a great job with your kids. I was almost in shock that one was giving you a hard time!

    ReplyDelete
  10. I think it's great. Now that I'm older I wish I had more of this. I was a great pretty much A student but I think I could have been even better as an adult.

    I say well done to you for sticking to what's best for them in the long run instead of giving in because it's what's best for you at the time. They will thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  11. I too don't feel that you are being too strict. If they don't cultivate good habits- diligence and strive for their best while under your wing it will be nearly impossible for them to survive when they reach the outside world. IT is never easy to know when to pull the string and when to let it lax. I'm sure you're doing a great job.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Not too strict at all. My parents were very clear on their expectations of grades for us. I know I will do the same when my kids are older. I admire what you are doing.
    Tracy

    ReplyDelete
  13. I think that you have set clear rules and have held to them. Children need to know that you will follow through when rules are broken. You do that so well!

    ReplyDelete
  14. Hi Jen,
    I teach 6th graders here in OH. I would love it if I had the parent support that you are giving your children. For me there is several times during the day that the students get reminders on what their assignments are. They have an organizer to write their assignments in as well.

    Stick to your guns, because some day it won't be a teacher requesting an assignment it will be a boss, bishop or bill collector looking for the follow through and the I forgot or did not know doesn't alway cut it!

    Tough lesson, but it is much better learned at home.

    ReplyDelete
  15. oh Jen. . .I've been there and am sure I will be again. The way you described bright children and then your own children, sounded like you were describing mine. Somehow, mediocrity is ok at school. But when you know that your child is doing less than what the normal child is doing and still getting a B/B+. . .well it does frustrate doesn't it!

    Stick to your guns!

    ReplyDelete
  16. I'm in the trenches with you, sis!
    I had a conversation (also known as a thrashing) with two of my own about this very subject.
    This is what I did for each:
    For the older one: emails between teachers and me. Punishment: grounding from friends and phone.
    For the younger: I signed the child up for an afterschool homework club, two days a week. He hates staying at school longer, but he's getting his homework done and that's all I care about. The homework club runs for 6 weeks, so we're going to make this "homework rehab" last that long and then we'll talk about whether or not to continue it at the end.
    Moms gotta do what we gotta do!

    ReplyDelete
  17. You're doing the best of your parenting skills, and not at all strict..I believe kids should know their boundary, and I also wish that other parents take this much interest in their children's lives!

    ReplyDelete
  18. Ugh....just reading that gives me a gut ache. I am so glad I dont have kids in school anymore.
    Homework and grades.....I usually felt like a failure of a mom.

    ReplyDelete
  19. This is just what I needed to read. You are right on track. This is the second blog addressing discipline and parenting I've read today after a tough evening and it just solidified my actions last night. So many parents don't take these kinds of actions and I am afraid of what these kids are going to be like when they grow up and have to fend for themselves. Good for you!

    ReplyDelete
  20. Ya gotta do whatcha gotta do.

    And I love Cherie's take on it...making it a day-by-day thing is more immediate somehow and also allows more immediate gratification for improved behavior.

    You're a good mom!

    =)

    ReplyDelete
  21. sounds like a good strategy to me. hold your ground, missy. :]

    ReplyDelete
  22. Trust me you will be so happy that you held your ground on this issue ten years from now when your children are productive and happy members of society instead of living in your basement playing video games all day!

    ReplyDelete
  23. Not too strict. Wouldn't you love to be the aunt of your children...for at least a day?! It's so draining sometimes!

    ReplyDelete
  24. Hey!! So are you saying I'm not one of your bright children? haha... :) Because I know for sure I always have to put in more effort than most people to get good grades. You know there isn't any half-baking coming from me!!! :)

    ReplyDelete
  25. It's the grinding need for consistency that's wearing, isn't it? Media full of the tiger mother here this week- read some of that for motivation!

    ReplyDelete
  26. You know I have this same problem, my friend. I am always debating this with Jeff and sometimes even with myself. How much is too much to expect of these bright kids? When do we just let them sink and see what happens. How much are we enabling and when are we creating stronger kids? Let me know if you find the answers! For the record I love your new plan, and think it's right on the money. Hard lessons, but better to learned in a home full of love than by flunking out of college or not being able to hold down a job when they're adults.

    ReplyDelete
  27. My middle son, Joey, who teaches all AP classes in a highschool near Lexington, would applaud you! He gets so disheartened when the students who can do better than most produce only mediocre work. He hates it that they are so lazy! The parents seem to be off doing their own thing. It is sad!

    ReplyDelete
  28. We live in a world where kids are rewarded for everything. "graduate" kindergarten and we'll give you an award. Our society expects to do the least amount of work and be praised and paid! I say stay strict!

    ReplyDelete
  29. Parents today are way way way too permissive. You are doing the right thing. I have to say that I never had this problem with any of my children because they got discipline from the day they were born. Of course things were much different when my children were growing up. What is it about today's parents? Are they afraid they will lose their children's love if they don't give them everything their heart desires? I could go on and on but I won't bore you. Needless to say, you are difinitely on the right track. Just be consistent, that's my only advice. Good luck! And, by the way, all of my chilren love me lots. I had five. My youngest is now 48, my oldest 59. They have been high achievers both in school and in their professional lives.

    ReplyDelete
  30. Parents today are way way way too permissive. You are doing the right thing. I have to say that I never had this problem with any of my children because they got discipline from the day they were born. Of course things were much different when my children were growing up. What is it about today's parents? Are they afraid they will lose their children's love if they don't give them everything their heart desires? I could go on and on but I won't bore you. Needless to say, you are difinitely on the right track. Just be consistent, that's my only advice. Good luck! And, by the way, all of my chilren love me lots. I had five. My youngest is now 48, my oldest 59. They have been high achievers both in school and in their professional lives.

    ReplyDelete
  31. Parents today are way way way too permissive. You are doing the right thing. I have to say that I never had this problem with any of my children because they got discipline from the day they were born. Of course things were much different when my children were growing up. What is it about today's parents? Are they afraid they will lose their children's love if they don't give them everything their heart desires? I could go on and on but I won't bore you. Needless to say, you are difinitely on the right track. Just be consistent, that's my only advice. Good luck! And, by the way, all of my chilren love me lots. I had five. My youngest is now 48, my oldest 59. They have been high achievers both in school and in their professional lives.

    ReplyDelete
  32. Oh, I wish I have some advice to share with you but I don't have the experience or the knowledge. I can sympathise with you about feeling guilty or like you are being too strict though. We've been trying to teach E how to behave more since she is at the age where she throws a tantrum when she doesn't get what she wants. I feel really bad for denying her things but it's the only way we can teach her that throwing a fit isn't the way to get things done.

    I hope that everything works out for you. It's tough being tough but we have to remember that everything we're doing now is for their own good. We want to raise children who are responsible for their own actions in life, right?

    ReplyDelete
  33. You're not being too strict. Stick to what you know is right. "Protect, direct, and correct." What you're trying to teach them is valuable. Someday they'll appreciate it.

    But I know it's hard.

    ReplyDelete
  34. Right doesn't mean easy.

    I admire what you're doing. I wish that many parents would take this stance. In a society that feels increasingly more "entitled", I admire parents that still teach these values.

    It's tiring fighting the resistance all the time, but keep going, Jen.

    It sounds like you're doing an amazing job.

    Thanks for an outstanding and thought provoking link on our little journey through Alphabe-Thursday this week.

    A++++++++++++++

    ReplyDelete
  35. you are not being too strict ... life after high school is all about individual achievement ... just getting by wont cut it if your kids want to further their education ... be strong and don't give in

    ReplyDelete
  36. As a teacher, I'd like to say thank you. Unfortunately, the school where I work is more about holding teachers accountable for kids not doing work. Teachers then fluff things through and kids don't understand that quality is important. I'm so glad to hear a parent expecting the kid's best.

    Teresa

    ReplyDelete
  37. It can be so tough to push your kids to achieve their best! I have one who will always do just enough and not over-exert himself. It is not pleasant and, the older they become, the harder it is! Stick at it!

    ReplyDelete
  38. i think you are doing what you think is best and that is the very best you can do for you kids. i always thought my parents were too strict, but in the end their high expectations motivated me to do better than i would have naturally. have two children that are EXACT opposite i am sure i will have the "that's not fair" arguement in my house, but i will only be as strict as the child requires me to be. let's hope i can hold my head high when we get to that point.

    ReplyDelete
  39. This post speaks to me on so many levels. I have had the "coming to Jesus" meetings more times this past year than ever before. It is frustrating, heartbreaking, irritating, annoying and confusing. On one hand you hear your kids calling you "a mean mom" and on the other, you know you have to do this for their best interests in the future.
    My kids are 16 and 10, going on 30...and I am not backing down! They will thank me when they are grown and in the real world.

    ReplyDelete
  40. I struggle with this too Jen. I just don't like doing it. It is definitely harder on the parent isn't it?
    Dana

    ReplyDelete